In this special bonus episode, Pierre Heistein, who was guest in episode 91, takes the host’s chair alongside co-founders Sue Stockdale and Clive Steeper. They celebrate reaching 150 episodes by reflecting on the conversations with guests and lessons learned, and discuss the common threads that bind these stories together. Pierre delves into the origins of the podcast, what does it mean to be inspirational, and how the show has impacted Sue and Clive and their listeners. Together they discuss how the podcast has influenced their perspectives and how they look to the future for taking the next steps of development.
Key Reflections
- “The most inspirational people often have an overriding purpose – something greater than themselves that motivates them to act.”
- “Inspiration is about more than success or achievement. It’s about attitude – a willingness to explore, to take risks, and to stay curious.”
- “Many of our guests had to embrace uncertainty or ambiguity at some point in their journey.”
- “Being an inspiration to others was often something guests had not considered about themselves.”
- “The podcast is designed to challenge assumptions – by hearing from people outside your own world, you begin to understand different ways of thinking.”
- “What guests often valued most about the interview was the opportunity to reflect on their life and what shaped them.”
- “Leadership and inspiration are intertwined. Many guests have influenced others through who they are, not just what they do.”
- “Each episode is a window into someone’s world, and those windows have revealed the many forms that inspiration can take.”
- “These conversations continue to affirm one thing – that every person has a story worth hearing.”
Time Stamps
01:26 Origins of the Podcast
03:41 Defining inspiration
06:06 Personal reflections on inspiration
12:36 The role of curiosity and vulnerability
23:31 Unexpectedly inspiring guests
27:17 The journey of resilience and tenacity
29:45 The power of ordinary acts
32:21 Impactful stories from the podcast
36:17 The Atuel river journey
42:14 Reflections on longevity and success
47:54 The future of the podcast
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Other episodes we recommend are:
50. Sue Stockdale – Insights from fifty episodes of inspiration
01. Clive Steeper – Going fast in business and motorsport
91. Pierre Heistein – Recording the story of the Atuel River
Review Episode Transcription
Pierre: Welcome to this very special review episode of Access to Inspiration. I’m Pierre Heistein and I was a guest on episode 91, and I’m thrilled to be back time in the hosts chair where I have the privilege of reflecting on the incredible journey of the past 150 episodes. With me today are co-founders, Sue Stockdale and Clive Steeper, and together we’re going to look back at the key lessons they’ve learned and the powerful themes that have emerged throughout this podcast as they reflect on the rich tapestry of conversations with diverse guests from over 35 countries. We’ll explore how these themes have resonated with our listeners and shaped our understanding of leadership, personal growth, and the human spirit. Sue and Clive will share their takeaways from the conversations and how they’ve been inspired by their amazing stories shared. I hope you’ll enjoy this look back at what’s been an inspiring journey so far. You can read the transcription as you listen by hopping over to access to inspiration.org. [00:01:00] Sue. Welcome, Clive. What is the view like from the other side of the microphone?
Sue: It’s a very comfortable seat. Thank you.
Clive: All, all good so far, Pierre.
Pierre: Good, good. Well, thank you for this opportunity to speak to both of you of your incredible experience. The consistency required to achieve 150 episodes is something that I’m sure many podcasts aspire to and will be inspired by. So I’d like to go back really to the beginning, and I’m sure that the origin of this podcast has its roots in years of experience and ideas. But what was the moment it all came together and you said, yes. Let’s start a podcast on inspiration.
Origins of the Podcast
Sue: well, what comes into my mind, Pierre is sitting having a cup of coffee with Clive in New Zealand and reflecting on what we were going to do and we had a big sheet of A4 paper in front of us and we were writing up ideas. And at the heart of that piece of [00:02:00] paper, the idea of a podcast emerged.
Clive: You’re right about the the, the memory there, Sue. The other thing was there was a common denominator as executive coaches. we were reflecting on how sometimes people get themselves stuck in situations or mindsets, and they needed to be able to do if you like, that quantum jump to jump outta that channel and get into another.
Defining inspiration
And that’s when we found ourselves talking about things such as motivation. And out of that came inspiration. And certainly me, one of the things that I observed as a business leader was that if one can inspire people, you are getting what I call free energy. they’re then self-motivated to, to do things. other thing that really came through in the conversation with Sue a question of [00:03:00] how many people actually realize that they themselves are inspirational. In other words, we can all be inspiring as well as we can all be inspired. It’s about being in a position, a mindset to receive or to transmit appropriately. And I think my worry was that too many people see inspiration as something that’s going on in social media. high ego, someone who is the latest pop star. That to me is not inspiration or it’s certainly not inspiration alone. There are far more fundamental things, and that’s I hope and believe this journey of ours for over 150 episodes has demonstrated.
Pierre: And I’d love to chat a bit more about inspiration in a minute, but a way of introduction to the listeners as well A G Lafley, the former CEO of Proctor and Gamble talks about playing where you have a right to win. What gives each of you right to win in the space? What made you believe that you [00:04:00] were the right people to start this podcast?
Clive: A fantastic question and, I’m not sure that I would say I have the right to win, but I think for me, I have the right to compete. Sometimes winning is viewed as being, you know, the extreme conclusion. But I think on this topic, as I could compete, and that’s because I come from a background where I worked in operations in manufacturing, not the sexiest part of the commercial world for many people. But it’s where the, sort of intersection of all the different functions of a business come together. ’cause at the end of the day, operationally, we have to produce the goods. So our role was to work with all of those different people and different functions. And in order to make that work, sometimes we had to persuade people to do things they didn’t want to do. And out of that came an ability of being inspiring. But as someone who could [00:05:00] stand up and get a room full of people to follow me. That took me a while to realize I could do that, was just sheer practice and also believing in what I’m saying if I didn’t believe it, it was never gonna be inspiring.
Sue: I love the question, Pierre. I’ve been an inspirational speaker for over two decades, and so there’s something about getting the feedback that what you’re doing is working. And also during the course of my career speaking, and as a coach and a leadership specialist, I’ve come across so many people that are inspiring and yet their voices are not heard.
To Clive’s earlier point about the theme of celebrity often being the only ones that we think are inspiring people whose names are appearing in the mass media and yet there are so many more people that are inspiring. So I believed at the start that if we created something that gave a platform to those who we don’t hear from as often that that would be of value. Whether there was one listener or whether there was thousands of listeners. It didn’t really [00:06:00] matter to, it was about just start and see what happens.
Personal reflections on inspiration
Pierre: Let me stay with you for a minute there. What does inspiration mean to you, Sue and what is the importance of hearing those unheard voices that you refer to?
Sue: well, in episode 141, we spoke to Christoph Quarch and he gave a lovely definition of what inspiration means for me. It is around the energy. And when I think about inspiration, I feel an energy generated with inside me, within the pit of my stomach and an energy to move forwards, to act, and that’s what inspiration means to me. And why I wanted to use that energy to act for others. Does that make sense?
Pierre: Absolutely. I’m glad you referenced Christoph’s episode there because it was a truly magical episode and I’d recommend it to anybody listening at the [00:07:00] moment. And Clive, you mentioned briefly sort of persuasion and followship and the belief in a goal. What does inspiration mean to you and through this podcast? Do you wish for people to be inspired to do one thing or another? Or is it the inspiration itself is the purpose?
Clive: I think fundamentally my aspiration is that people feel better about, the perspective, they have on themselves in the sense of we can be inspiring as well as we can be inspired. I have dealt with very, very senior people, as I’m sure you have, Pierre, and I ask them a simple question, who inspires you? I get silence or they will trot out one of the big global names. they’re not really always looking at others and getting that self perspective as to what’s going to inspire. So without sidetracking is too [00:08:00] much. If one wants to have a vision, it has to be appealing, otherwise people aren’t gonna follow it. So, as such, to be inspiring, you’ve gotta have a appeal to the others, but it’s gotta be appeal of what you want and what you believe. So I think in that sense, the inspiration is a form of energy.
And in my own head I think of it as a bit like a sort of 1940’s radio antenna where we learn to transmit and receive information. And as we’ve gone through the decades till now, it happens very fast and very sophisticated. So the analogy or the metaphor therefore is, is the practice to send and receive. I think inspiration to an extent for people, not just leaders, but parents, has been that inspiration is something stealth. It’s something that happens occasionally, I think without it becoming commonplace, it’s something we should value and can use.
Pierre: Well, if you allow me a reflection on the [00:09:00] many episodes I’ve heard in your podcast as well, I think it. Both of you are saying similar things, and something I’ve seen in all your guests is that what’s amazing about your podcast is that it is so broad and that the guests are so diverse that it doesn’t stick to one activity, one area or one topic. But when you listen to them all together, what really comes across very strongly, and it reflects in what you’re saying, this inspiration to be a better version of yourself.
This inspiration to live a fuller life. And that’s certainly what really touches deep inside of me when I’m listening, is it’s often just a kick in the butt to say, check. Check that you are living the life you want to live and be the person you want to be. Regardless of how each of us define that or what we aspire to. And so, Clive, back to you quickly. Is inspiration something you think we seek or something that finds [00:10:00] us.
Clive: I think the political answer would be both, I think it depends where we are. If we’re desperately, trying to sort an issue or challenge out, we’ll be looking for inspiration. But equally, be walking along and suddenly we get inspired by something that’s happened that becomes the idea and energy that takes us to, to a new So I think it’s something we should always be open to. So it’s back to my little antenna metaphor. the more that we are open to considering other things, it can be useful. I mean, often even with Sue, I’ll have some fascinating conversations that sometimes, the water’s getting a bit hot it’s because I come from a background of innovation where things have never been made before.
So I will consider ideas that some of those might think are left field, they’re out of the realm of what we’re talking about, but outta that can come the inspiration for a different idea that could lead to the solution. So there’s an open-minded element to things, whereas others [00:11:00] may come from a fairly logical, experiential based, no, we do this, we do this. We repeat slowly, go slightly over the edge and we’ll get a bit better.
Whereas I’ll take a, a leap and try something different. But I think the other thing, and I absolutely feel sort of. Grateful and humble by what you just said in your summary, Pierre. And one of the things perhaps to into it ’cause as well as Christoph’s podcast, the other one I found really interesting in this area is with Kevin Chapman, who talked a bit about brain science, the neuroscience, and what’s the chemistry that’s going on in our brains and with what we can now do, to see and understand that and help people to then look at how they’re preparing themselves and why prepare in that way. And I think therefore there are things we can do to contribute to being more inspiring, but that doesn’t guarantee us that we will be inspiring. But it does, to your point, put us into a more positive [00:12:00] mode. And I think the more positive elements we have in our fuel tank, the less negatives we’ll have, the better we’ll be.
Pierre: That’s lovely and it, it reminds me of when you pose that question to senior leaders of who or what inspires you. I know for me I struggle with that question as well, and it’s often not a person or a career or a figurehead, but rather moments or small acts of different people, or like you say, snippets of a conversation or an idea or a behavior or trait of someone in a moment that can be truly and deeply inspiring as well. Sue. How would you describe based on your own experience and guests that you’ve had in the show, the difference between being inspired and being motivated?
The role of curiosity and vulnerability
Sue: Oh, you give me all the difficult questions, Pierre. Thank you. The way I define it is motivation comes from a motive for action. [00:13:00] So in my mind, that connects to purpose. So when any of us get clearer about our purpose, it gives us a motive for action. And that can be in a simplistic level, as in from a child’s perspective, if I want to get an ice cream, and that’s my purpose, how do I nag my parents to give me the money to buy an ice cream?
That could be motivation. Inspiration is the element to which Clive was just referring earlier is about external. It’s something that comes outside of us to generate some fuel within. So a beautiful sunset. A piece of art. A conversation with somebody. I mean, I, I’ve had 150 moments of inspiration, having the privilege to speak to all our fantastic guests, and every single time I leave the conversation with a nugget of inspiration that causes me to look at the world differently and look at myself differently.
And those things are coming from the outside, from within and they may be giving me also [00:14:00] motivation to act, to have a greater clarity about my purpose so, it’s all back to this kind of energetic sense.
Pierre: Let me ask a hard question to Clive then. I think some people just seem to think that they have that go-getter attitude and that in itself can be inspiring, but it can also be a bit intimidating and lead to despondency in others. And a feeling perhaps of that’s not me. The inspiration train left me on the platform and it. Clive, do you think it’s necessary to be positive, to be inspired? Or what would you say to someone who’s struggling to access inspiration?
Clive: Inspiration is not all about being positive. Inspiration is about that enthusiasm. It’s that energy. It’s a way forward. It’s a solution. It can be a crack of light that just shows you, ah, okay, that’s the direction to go. So I think. right to [00:15:00] a ask us to explore, inspiration in that broader broader context. If we think of executive coaching and, and young coaches are starting out, they often want to, to hear that aha moment from the person that they’re coaching. And they’re almost scoring themselves on their coaching sessions on the, have I got an aha moment? And sometimes it isn’t an aha moment, but the person, the coachee will have gone. just think about that a bit later on, so we don’t necessarily know it. I think is a, a risk that inspiration can seem to be some big neon light Hollywood sign, actually it, could just be the little seed corn of something. That takes you forward. And, and in that sense it’s how you nurture it.
So I think, you know, you are opening the door for us to have a sort of deeper fabulous conversation about the use of inspiration, because I was just reflecting as Sue was talking there, is [00:16:00] that, inspiration in one sense is a treasure. And as a treasure, there’s part of me who wants to protect it, that it doesn’t become too popular. If that becomes the latest, buzzword language to be inspired, it, you know, the meaning may get distorted. And I think it’s such a valuable thing that we want to treat it with with respect. And, and it isn’t the only thing, I am realizing through these 150 episodes that I saw it as something special that happens every once in a while. It isn’t something that happens every day. But there are smaller things that come along called mini inspirations, if you like, that will just give us those little kernels, those little seed corns and ideas and it’s a bit like gardening. You’ve gotta put ’em in the ground, water them and look after them, see how they grow, and it, and it may take a while.
Sue: A fun exercise that I learned many years ago when I was doing a [00:17:00] neurolinguistic programming training course, NLP we were working in pairs, and the partner span you around with your eyes closed, so you were disorientated.
Before you got spun around, you were thinking about a problem or an issue that was on your mind. And then when you opened your eyes, you were to see whatever was in front of you. And think about how does this relate to my problem or situation and what can I learn from it? And I remember being spun around and then looking at a telephone, the old fashioned telephone with a telephone cable.
And it was the curly cable of the telephone that gave me inspiration for a way of solving my problem. And I’ll never forget that because it was such a simple exercise. And so what in a way I encourage our listener to think about is whatever your problem or situation is that you’re facing today, just randomly dip into one of the 150 episodes and think about what you learn from listening to that that relates to your problem or situation.
And I would guarantee there will be some kernel of wisdom in there that will be able to help you. [00:18:00] So it’s about, openness, that willingness to look outside to get something that may help us with what is on the inside or the thing that we’re grappling with.
Clive: And Sue if I add, some people will look through the body of work of all of our episodes and be looking for something, they’re going to look for something in their own kind, and I think part of it is just pick something. Don’t try and predict it. Just pick it and then see what happens. And that can lead to inspiration rather than trying to just stay in one’s own channel. But maybe I, again, I’m reflecting Pierre, you know, my sense of of innovation there.
Pierre: I think what you’re both reflecting on there without maybe saying the word is just the power of curiosity and being curious about what’s in front of you and what you’ve been spun around to see and spin that dial. Pick an episode at random and just be deeply [00:19:00] curious about what’s in there, no doubt there’ll be something in there that reflects back to you and even slightly steers your own path forward. I think a lot. Part of that is also being open. So another question to you, Sue. What role do you think vulnerability plays in being inspired and inspiring others?
Sue: When I’ve had the opportunity to have a conversation with our guests and to create a space safe enough for them to open up to remove those shields that we all have, that facade we may want to project to the world when they feel safe enough to truly be themselves, and to sometimes maybe admit, well, I didn’t know that. Or maybe that was a mistake that I made, or I’m not, I wasn’t sure how to go forwards when they really get a sense of reflecting and being open and honest and vulnerable. [00:20:00] That to me is the magic that comes out in the conversations because it shows their humanity, and that is what any listener connects to.
It certainly connects to me so I know as a podcast host, my job is to create that safe enough environment and very often not to have such a clear agenda that is going to drive the conversation in a particular direction because it’s in the openness. Just as you’re able demonstrating and your role as host today, Pierre, it’s in the conversation. It’s taking people to new spaces of thinking and reflection. When they do go into that unknown, that is when I think the magic happens. So for any of us in any context, how do we manage our judgements?
Judgment can be helpful. It makes us, helps us to narrow down decision making. Very often we can be quick to judge to move forwards. But it’s also a hindrance because it does stop openness and curiosity. So how do we remain open, curious, and interested enough in the other [00:21:00] person that they can see themselves reflected in what they’re saying? And that is when the wonderful humanness comes out, that I think is partly getting through that vulnerability to get there.
Clive: One other thing to the wisdom that Sue has just given us is with what you were saying Pierre, about curiosity, and people just dipping into a, a podcast and listening is they can be open to that and do it in the comfort of their own space. It’s safe, nobody will know. in that sense, what would be the reason not to do it? Often people don’t want to be curious. In case they make a mistake, they ask a silly question. This is all private, personal, it’s their time. They can just dip in, listen, and then move on. It’s a wonderful opportunity.
Pierre: It is a wonderful opportunity and I can also reflect on the style of your podcast as [00:22:00] well. I really struggle to listen to podcasts just because I don’t have time as all of us on earth seem to be struggling with now and for all history. But the wonderful thing about podcasts is that you can listen to them while doing other things, whether that’s the dishes or, going out on a run or driving,
but what I do so enjoy about your podcast is that it is challenging in that it unsettles perhaps. that have cemented down or perspectives that I’ve carved in stone and that, because that’s exactly what I’m seeking to do, but it’s also easygoing. I don’t, I can do other things at the same time.
I can allow my mind to drift. And if I do drift off a little as we do, I don’t need to push play. Because that then that becomes an obligation. It becomes a job. It becomes a task to put on my list of just like reading a, really technical book of saying, oh, well put that onto the digital todo list. I do find [00:23:00] your podcast to be wonderful company throughout my day. And just allowing that openness and curiosity flow through. And then after the episode, just letting what is filter through, filter through. And there is always something, always gems, always something that moves. And for both of you, what, what are the common themes in the most inspiring people you’ve interviewed? And were any of those unexpected?
Unexpectedly inspiring guests
Sue: maybe if I give some context to my answer first, Pierre, a large proportion of our guests are first time podcasters, so it’s the first time they’ve been invited onto a podcast, and I use the word invited. Because we’re pulling them into the conversation. So they come with a different mindset compared to somebody who has suggested themselves to be on the podcast.
A more of a push [00:24:00] motivation. So that I think is an important distinction because then they may not have seen themselves as inspiring and through just an invitation to say, Hey, come and have a conversation. There’s something really interesting about what you’re doing that we’d like to find out more about and getting them talking.
Then they are inspiring. I can give an example of that. Episode 11, Deb Downing and Dennis Borner. With a couple that I met when I was traveling and got into conversation with them and they’d heard me speak. And they said, we’d love what you said, Sue.
And you know, we’d done a bit of adventure ourselves. We decided when we were retiring that we would sell up everything and we would sail around the Caribbean and that would be our life. And I was struck by this. Wow. Imagine having the courage to do that and got into conversation with them and then said, oh, well, would you fancy being on our podcast to tell your story?
And it was following that serendipity, following that curiosity. I didn’t say it [00:25:00] because you have to come on an inspirational podcast and you need to be inspirational. I just said, come and tell your story. And we sat and had a conversation and recorded that. And it was inspiring because they did take risks. They were courageous. They overcame many challenges during that journey. But they didn’t come in with a mindset of having to be inspiring. They came in with a mindset of just telling me their story. And that’s what I love about many of these conversations that we’ve had. And I think that the unique factor is that we are opening that gate to many of those guests into an unknown world.
And we’re making an easy process for them. And then as part of our research and our impact reports that the two we’ve published, we have asked previous guests about, well, what did you learn about podcasting? Would you be encouraged to do more of it? And some have even gone on to have their own podcasts so we’ve taken people into the unknown. They’ve become inspired to do more podcasting and to see the value of podcasting differently.
Pierre: That’s great. It reminds me of one of your latest episodes with Ed Ley Wilson where he ended the conversation Oh, [00:26:00] saying, oh, Sue, I thought we were gonna talk about kayaking. And it’s exactly that. Yes, his kayaking was fascinating up the coast of Scotland, but it was perhaps more the, act or the self the drive to do that and the reasons behind that, and freezing his butt off in the tent for ages and what that did to him as well.
That became, at least for me, one of the most inspiring parts of just putting your phone down and staring at the tent walls and seeing what comes out of that. Clive, I don’t know if you had anything to, to add to that
The journey of resilience and tenacity
Clive: well, I was just distilling what you both were saying there, and I wonder if one of the aspects of our podcast has been the focus is on inspiration, but maybe we’re being catalytic in the sense of giving some exposure to areas which might be inspiring to people who have done extraordinary things. I think if one sets out to be [00:27:00] inspiring, it might become frustrating. But I think if one sets out something that one passionately believes in, it has deep meaning than what I’ve observed through these 150 episodes. Is that the sort of first phase for people they get to that stage.
There’s probably a pre-stage, which is a situation that’s created that to happen, and then they get into an area where they. to themselves as much as to others, a resilience, a tenacity to pursue their endeavor. and after that, they then get into the aspect, the phase where it has its own sort of momentum then, and they have to manage something that’s growing. And so there’s this sort of almost like mini life journey through that inspirational aspect. And in all of those three steps, they’re finding a depth that they didn’t realize that they had.
Sue: [00:28:00] Clive, I think you, you particularly liked episode 136 with Mark Fletcher as an example of that.
Clive: Yeah. I really did like that one because to me, it connected through to Navi Radjou podcast, I think it was number 24. And he’s talking around head, the heart, the footprint type analogy, but then he used the term soul print and I just thought that was for me, very powerful. And what I saw with Mark Fletcher is a young man who lost his, his mother early, and during the period, the final months of his mother’s life, he was doing SIM racing on the computer. So racing cars on computers. And what he would do is he was quite competitive. He was good, so he was racing and his mum and dad would be in another room watching him race. And his mum absolutely loved it. in grieving and coming out of his mother’s [00:29:00] passing, he created an eSports team a Altitude 3M is the name of the team, and he’s now brought into that team a number of young people who. that organisation that creates the team’s success from communications to coaching other drivers. And they now have a stable of drivers, some of who are actually professional racing drivers in the real world. So he has now created this successful team of that grief. And I think that it’s turning those things into the positive. It was just such a, a lovely story and as I say, reflected Navi had been saying in in episode 24.
Pierre: I love, I loved what you said as well. The consequence of projects that sometimes come from not focusing on the objectives when you were talking about, maybe it’s about being a catalyst and [00:30:00] not, trying to make everything inspirational. ’cause earlier part of this conversation, I can’t remember which the image of a nuclear reactor came into my mind and, and I thought that, this is what you’re doing.
I mean, in a nuclear reactor, you can’t control all these things whizzing around and the objectives that they hit each other and, and create energy, but you can’t control which one hits another one. And they barely ever hit each other. That’s the whole. Science behind nuclear reacting, you have to put the graphite thingy in the middle.
I mean, I’m no nuclear scientist, as you can tell. But the point here is that it, it’s all this whizzing around of potential. And the best you can do is create the environment for that because you really never know what’s gonna hit home for someone. And, yes, you have interviewed people who’ve done extraordinary things but you’ve also interviewed a lot of people who’ve done relatively ordinary things in extraordinary circumstances or with extraordinary challenges in their way.
The power of ordinary acts
And I’ll give you an example. Just the two of you inspire me just through your [00:31:00] consistency and your ability to show up Monday morning and do this. Because podcasting is extremely difficult. It’s not the greatest business on in the world. It’s often not clear what impact you are having or how many listeners you have or how you’re impacting their lives. And it’s difficult to stay motivated over a long period of time. It would be for me rather that, again, I don’t mean to reflect this on you, but it’s the, it’s the little nuclear reaction that happened in me looking at you going, I often need that instant gratification. I need that. Well, if this is not a unicorn business model within six months, just like the three people we see on social media who’ve done that, then I’m failing. And the two of you inspire me to make me remember, no, actually just showing up on Monday morning and keep doing, keep creating that environment what’s needed. And things will come of that. And I find that extremely, inspiring where other people might look at that and say, oh, well that is an ordinary act. But it’s an ordinary act [00:32:00] that certainly inspired me. And that’s the richness I think in the, the breadth. extent of the episodes you have, do, do you have any other stories of how you have any other stories from listeners have been moved or impacted or changed by your work?
Impactful stories from the podcast
Sue: I can give a lovely example. What comes to my mind is a conversation I had with somebody who’s been in your seat before Pierre, who’s been a guest host Eveline van den Heuvel interviewed me for one of the episodes on the podcast, and Eveline talked about how an early episode 9 that we did with John David Bartoe, who is an astronaut, and he, he talked about. Using curiosity when he was young, sitting at the kitchen table with his family and he’d be asking lots of questions and his father would always say, well, let’s get the encyclopaedia out to work out the answer.
And it [00:33:00] was how he used his curiosity to get answers. Well, Eveline listened to this episode and she realized that she was perhaps not doing that for her daughter in quite the same way. And so from then on when her daughter asked her the question, she would stop and say, well, I don’t know. Let’s go and look up the answer. And so it gave her a new way of following the curiosity of her daughter to go on a journey of learning. So that’s a very simple, small thing, but nevertheless, I think that’s important, that’s paying it forward to the next generation.
And another episode I think also that was very inspiring. It didn’t change the people’s outcome, but again, just showed how unexpected things can come out of conversations is that we interviewed Arild Nydegger Ovre-Eide and Gyrid Dahl in episode 121. Now there are ar runs a Norwegian farm and, and Gyrid was one of his employees and we had them on the conversation talking about embracing change and tradition in Norwegian farming.
Arild [00:34:00] said it’s a very small sustainable farm that he runs, is not enough to give him a full-time income, so he has to. Supplement that income by doing a part-time job. And he works in a local prison teaching the inmates bakery and confectionery. And so they then learn a skill that they can then use when they’re released from prison to contribute more fully to society because they can make their family bread and cakes or they could work in a shop or on a ship and so on.
So he feels he’s giving back by sharing those skills every year. Also, they have an event, and this is a, a low category of prison and that he’s working at, every year he runs an event, a Christmas meal at his farm for the prisoners. So 88 or so prisoners along with the prison officers come to his farm to have this Christmas event.
And he said it gives them a sense of meaning because everybody has a Christmas meal that they can talk about. And when they’re in prison, they don’t have that sense of connectedness to society. [00:35:00] So they come along and have the Christmas meal and he said it’s quite ironic that when some prisoners sadly re-offend and land up back in prison again, almost the first question that they ask is, will we be having Christmas meal this year?
Can we come to the farm? And they see this as part of something to look forward to. Now hearing those, those stories again, it just makes one realize about that connectedness to simple things, small things. It can be inspiring and meaningful to give somebody a sense of worth and value.
Pierre: Oh, those are great stories and I think just once again, reinforces this reflection for me that’s coming out of this conversation around how inspiration is and not these grand acts they can be as well. Of course. But a lot of inspiration comes just from the little things and is in the, the tapestry of our lives all around us. If we take the time and have the curiosity to see [00:36:00] them.
The Atuel river journey
Sue: May I ask you a question back? Pierre, we had you as a guest, as you’ve mentioned at the start, and here you’re sitting in the seat of host today. What hadn’t happened when we interviewed you then, but has happened since, I think is also a great example of inspiration.
You were being interviewed about, taking a journey down the Atuel River. You explored it from its source down to the area in Argentina, where you live, and that film that you then created, the story that you told. Then was a catalyst for a bit of a bigger idea that then ended up being projected on a reservoir wall. Just talk to us a little bit about what actually happened then from that small idea and how it inspired you to something bigger.
Pierre: Well, I think that’s a wonderful example of what we’ve been speaking about because so, what actually happened is that the biggest, if you will, event that came out of that entire project was I. our documentary on a dam wall [00:37:00] in Argentina where the water is seriously threatened. And until somebody proves me wrong, it’s the world’s largest projection of a film ever.
The screen was 88 meters wide. It was enormous. It was the size of a football pitch the, the screen. Now, I say until someone proves me wrong, because we never got it officially, judged by Guinness, because many people don’t know this, that is extremely expensive. As a kid, I always wanted to break a Guinness World Record because I thought, you break the record and they magically float down in a helicopter and hand you the certificate. But it’s a lot more difficult than that. So that’s what actually happened. And that may be the inspiring story that we achieved, that we broke that world record. We did it all within six weeks managed to raise. A lot of capital for that ’cause it was very expensive to get those predictions and, and we are very proud of ourselves for that achievement.
And that could be an inspiring story for others perhaps. But what’s interesting about your [00:38:00] question is that that’s not where it started. That was not the inspiring moment. The inspiring moment for me, and you’re making me reflect on this, was when we were paddling down the river initially to film. The whole process took about three or four years, I think, including the projection, the documentary, a video game we’ve got out of that, the journey down 500 kilometers of river.
But the critical moment for me in that whole journey was watching what nature did or how it responded to the sun. So we spent days paddling down a river. And we were filming. That was our main work, if you will. And we could not work at night. We could not work when it got dark. We had to paddle during the day, set up camp in the evening, break camp in the in the morning, and film when the light was good. And so for the first [00:39:00] time in my life, I had my work hours were defined by the sun. And I don’t think I’m alone in this in an age where many of us work in the information services in one way or another.
And you can work anytime you want. Essentially. And for me, learning how to work in an e and flow manner. In a focus your work now and then rest, just like nature does, go out and harvest and then rest, go out and harvest and then rest. And that behavioral pattern that I noticed in my surroundings changed how I worked, changed how I view my work day and my career. It changed. That was my inspiring moment to change my behavior. And it was that that eventually led me to organize this event and break a world record with such haphazard nonchalance that it just somehow happened. That was the inspiring moment. Watching the bugs and the otters [00:40:00] and the reeds respond to the sun.
Sue: What a wonderful example Pierre.
Clive: Magical moments and reminds me of Jonathan Cook in episode 26. And I think also Maritza Lopez episode 131. They’re both dealing with nature. Jonathan is doing regenerative farming, whereas Maritza is doing what I call retraining the forest folk. They’re learning about soap nuts and how they can restore a lot of the wildlife in their area. This is not something that happens overnight. It’s not that modern day instant effect. It’s something that they’ve had to progressively go through, deal with the highs and lows of, climate, they have a determination and a belief in what they’re doing that it’s, it’s really inspiring [00:41:00] and just shows how sometimes we have to think of this in the. As a long game, as you say, you have that one image and it carries you all the way through.
And I think if, if I am right, Sue, when we had the conversation with Mick Dawson, rowed the Pacific Japan to San Francisco in six plus months, it took him they row, there was two of them. And they row two hours on, two hours off every day of every week of every month, irrespective of the weather. And I said to him at one point, what kept you going through all of that time? And he said, I had this image in my head of rowing underneath Francisco’s Golden Bridge. So whenever it got tough, I said, I am going to see the underneath of that bridge. I. That’s what held him together for that six plus months.And he had some [00:42:00] real highs and lows. He lost his whilst he was crossing the Pacific and had a few dark days. But again, his teammate carried him through that. this image is what fueled him the whole way through.
Reflections on longevity and success
Sue: I think what we’re talking about here in these different examples is longevity, and that success doesn’t happen overnight. It takes time.
Pierre: So let’s talk about longevity and that end goal of paddling under the bridge or otherwise. Your project, I think, is characterized by longevity. You’ve already done two impact reports, 150 episodes, I dunno how many seasons that translates into, but you’ve been doing this for a while, and you couldn’t have done that without it having some impact on you and the project. So. First of all, how have the stories you’ve heard from listeners and the feedback you’ve gotten from your community changed the purpose of the [00:43:00] podcast itself?
Sue: Well, a couple of of things. To add into to the question, Pierre, is because we have been willing to, a bit like you paddling down the river, go with the flow. We started off and as we went along and after a few series speaking to amazing guests, we thought, how about if our guests hosted episodes?
And we then had a whole series of guest hosted episodes that was us evolving what we were doing and changing. And then we thought, well, what if we partnered with another organization that we could then co-produce a series together? So we partnered with the Royal Scottish Geographical Society and had some amazing guests in in that series.
So we have evolved things as we’ve gone and then we thought how do we know whether this is working or not? How do we evaluate the impact we’re having? Let’s produce an impact report. And out of that, part of the wonderful team that helped us to do that was [00:44:00] Racheal Kigame.
And she in her podcast earlier on, in episode 12. One of the things that she had shared in her conversation was that she always asks her, her boss how can I be of help? And she had said exactly the same thing to me at the end of the podcast conversation, how can I be of help to this podcast?
So when we decided to do an impact report, I went back to Racheal and said, would you like to be of help? Could you help us in this process? And she then brought in another one of her colleagues to help to do that. So that has been the way that things have evolved and maybe there’s a learning there is sometimes just holding that question in mind for any of us is offering to somebody else, how can I be of help? And never knowing that they might just tick you up on that someday.
Clive: For me, I think part of the, what has kept us going, the longevity is it, it’s been self fueling. [00:45:00] In the respect of the guests have been fantastic. As you say, it’s such a wide range of people. I think it’s 37 countries that we’ve had conversations with people from, and I’m humbled by what they’ve done. So it’s that privilege of being a able to do it that has really kept me going.
And as I say, there are, you know, some inspirational things in there that personally lift me when I think of David Smith in number 134, and his life’s journey at the moment and how he continues to battle with his situation, but remains so positive and still does things.
And I see him on social media and one minute he’s in hospital and he’s not in a good condition. The next minute he’s fought his way back to recovery. And he’s then, on one leg he’s skiing down a slope. He will not let these things stop him from en enjoying life. And I think for me, that’s something I often about [00:46:00] in, in situations where I have a difficulty, I’ll think of people like David and go, just move on, Clive. Let’s make this work. So I think there are little, pixels in these 150 episodes where I will just, lift those bits off and and it will carry me forward. So I’m. Very grateful for all the conversations we’ve had ’cause they’ve added to my own library.
Sue: I I might also add that the we that we talk about is not just Clive and myself, Pierre. I also want to acknowledge the incredible support we’ve had from our sound editor Matias de Ezcurra in Argentina. Matias joined us right from the start and what he reflected upon as he’s gone along the journey is because of the nature of the episodes that he was editing and realising the power of inspiration and connecting to things that really you’re passionate about.
He has evolved the type of work and the type of clients that he is working with. Because he is realized in a way, life’s too short to work on things that might just bring you money, but don’t bring you [00:47:00] joy. And so he’s been a really stalwart member of the team all the way along and has introduced new ideas to our thinking brought us our, our new intro and outro music
The future of the podcast
And I’ve mentioned Racheal Kigame, who produced that first impact report. And then Tanatswa Gawande who produced the second impact report for us. All of these people have been really an important part of this journey and needs to be called out
Clive: I would like to add one more, who we’ve never mentioned, I don’t think ever, and it’s Robin Greenway of the Malthouse who designed our brand. I’ve had so many good comments about our brand and our logo and it sits on my race car and people ask about what it is ’cause it catches their eye. And I think these little, nuggets are, are so valuable and sometimes they are, uncelebrated, which is perhaps wrong of us.
Pierre: You spoke about working with the podcast changed Matias’s view on, on work and [00:48:00] life. And if each of you were to take a step back, back from individual examples, guests and, and rather look at the whole process, what does seep through for you? How, how have each of you changed or been impacted by sitting in the host and founder seats now these 150 episodes?
Clive: I had the pleasure of interviewing Robert Thirsk, who’s a Canadian astronaut, he, along with JD Bartoe, another astronaut, both in their descriptions and their words took me to outer space, and I could then sort of see the world in a different perspective. So a little like yourself, Pierre, when you were going down the river and you were seeing things through the sunlight and the ebb and flow of the day, you get to see things from that bigger perspective.
And you suddenly look at some of the minutiae we deal with, and you think, why? But [00:49:00] the other thing that that came outta that was that sometimes the things that look big and expensive don’t think are worthwhile are just part of a longer game. And one of the things that Robert Thirsk worked on was the robot arm that worked on the shuttle. Now, as a result of that, they’ve miniaturized that technology. It’s now a robot arm that’s used in microsurgery that’s saving lives. So, I can get the, don’t spend money, but then you get to that and then it becomes something that’s worthwhile. So I think there are aspects that we’ve seen that are from technology to emotion and behavior. and it’s that bandwidth that sits with me when I think of the, the whole body of work that we’ve done.
Sue: If I can also carry along that world perspective, I hold this picture in my mind, Pierre [00:50:00] of a globe of the world with 150 guests from all of these different countries dosed about on that world. One of the things that JD Bartoe said in his episode was about when you see Earth from space, you want to look after it. You want to take care of it. And I in a way see our guests as a kind of community, I want to see these episodes and these people as, as precious contributors to this body of work. And so my question leaves me in my mind is if we’ve created something that’s so precious and valuable, how else, where else can it be useful?
And that’s where it takes me into the thinking for what’s next. And the reason that we’ve decided to take a pause after 150 episodes and look back and reflect and say, okay, now we have this body of work, this body of valuable conversation about inspiration. How else, where else might it be useful?
I want to champion things that people have done that have been our [00:51:00] guests. When I see them on social media, I want to communicate with them and let them know about our successes. I want them to feel valued to be part of something, and therefore, how do we take that something and move it forward and give it an additional life? That that’s where longevity would be really important for me, that this has more than just a life of 150 episodes.
Pierre: Indeed, it is a body of work, but more than that, it’s a body of human experience and. We all know how powerful it is to be fed by and inspired by experience and to be able to relate to that. I think that’s a wonderful world image. So what next, looking forward, what possibilities are you most excited about going forward? And that may be another 150 episodes, it may be an entirely different kind of evolution of this body of human experience. [00:52:00] What are you both excited about? What drives you to keep moving it forward?
Clive: It is a question I’m wrestling to find the clear answer. I think as we’ve heard today, Sue does an outstanding job as podcast host and people enjoy those podcasts, so there is a temptation to say, let us do more, then. Part of that could be read to be then that’s falling into a category of, of entertaining. I think there is another part of aspect to pick a couple of the words we’ve used, the catalyst, the inspiration, the storytelling, reflections, these elements. I think it’s trying to find a way that [00:53:00] we can use some of this body of work that can help to inform, so, there are aspects of inspiration that perhaps could serve a purpose. In society today. I don’t know those answers, but I think talking to people who are eminent and working in those areas and offering this body of work, which isn’t theoretical, it’s practical and real. It’s what people have lived, it’s what people are doing, and seeing how that work could be used would be fascinating.
Sue: And I would add to that I’m gonna put it out to the listener. Listener. If you are listening to this and you’ve enjoyed our body of work so far, how else, where else could it be useful? please let us know. Please inform our thinking. ’cause this isn’t just a team venture here. It’s, I’m putting it out to the world and saying, how could it be of value? And I’d love to get some input back. And I a hundred percent know that when we trust, often in asking the question that dare [00:54:00] not be asked is when we get the most amazing answers.
Pierre: Well, thank you. Thank you to you both for this wonderful conversation. I think it’s testament to, to your podcast and to the work you do, just how it never ceases to amaze me how powerful conversations are. I’d obviously scripted some of these questions and some of them not. above all, I had come in, in my role today to be of service to you. yet through the conversation though I’m the one asking the questions, you’ve changed my perspective. I’ve had slight mindset shifts and I feel that have been of way more service to me today than I have to you. And I think that that is testament to your podcast and this body of work, this body of experience that you have both, not just created, but sustained. And that is often the underestimates of inspiration of, of keeping things going. [00:55:00] And I. Look forward, forward to seeing where it’s going, and to your prompt and invitation. Sue, let me know how I can help.
Clive: Thanks Pierre.
Sue: Well, thank you Pierre, for hosting such a wonderful conversation today. I’ve really enjoyed it and it is great to reflect on something and be asked questions about it to really explore the depth of my thinking and reflection on this. Thank you.
Sound Editor: Matias de Ezcurra
Producer: Sue Stockdale