In this episode of our podcast, host Sue Stockdale has a conversation with Professor Dame Anne Glover, President of the Royal Scottish Geographical Society. Anne explains why effective communication is vital in science and geography. Whether it’s encouraging more people to pursue science or communicating the importance of research findings, clear and effective communication is essential.
With Climate Solutions as the theme of this podcast series, Anne highlights the importance of taking responsibility and finding pleasure in the knowledge gained from research and reflects on the importance of representation and inspiring others, particularly young women, to pursue their passions and overcome barriers.
Professor Dame Anne Glover PRSE FRS is a molecular biologist who has studied how we respond to stress at the molecular level and is currently Special Adviser to the Principal at University of Strathclyde. She was the first Chief Scientific Adviser to the President of the European Commission (2012-2015) and is a well respected ambassador for European science with deep experience of evidence-based policymaking. Prior to that, Anne was the first Chief Scientific Adviser for Scotland (2006-2011) and has worked to increase diversity in both science and in society as well as ensuring that knowledge generated from research can be made useful.
In 1999 Anne spun out a company from her research to both diagnose and provide solutions for environmental pollution. She is/has been a trustee and Chair of a number of charities and has a particular interest in how knowledge can be used to transform lives in Africa and developing nations.
Anne also serves on a number of Boards in the UK with a common theme of harnessing innovation for sustainability and health. She has been awarded over 20 honorary degrees and fellowships both nationally and internationally and appears regularly in the media and at science festivals.
Partners and Supporters
We partnered with the Royal Scottish Geographical Society to bring you this series. Take a look at their Climate Solutions course, developed by leaders and experts in climate change and endorsed by the Institute of Directors.
We are also supported by Squadcast –the remote recording platform which empowers podcasters by capturing high-quality audio and video conversations.
Action to take after listening to the podcast
- We have created a list of questions to help you reflect on the podcast episode and what you heard
- “Excitement is a life in science.”
- “People think sometimes that science is a value-free zone. It’s just absolutely all about evidence and data. And of course, that’s not true.”
- “When I’m using public transport, I can speak to another human. I can find out interesting stuff, have a great conversation. It’s often much more positive.”
- “I think the most important thing is to be outward looking.”
- “I think scientists are pretty good communicators.”
- “I think it’s inexcusable to take public money to do research, and not to think about how do you make sure that the knowledge that you generate has impact and is valuable to other people.”
[00:03:05] Inspiring young people into science.
[00:08:13] Climate solutions.
[00:09:37] Better way of living.
[00:13:29] Greta Thunberg and activism.
[00:19:00] Geography and science connection.
[00:21:11] Communicating science’s value.
[00:27:46] Scottishness and career impact.
[00:30:27] Food sustainability in Africa.
[00:32:35] Laughing and science.
01:58 Sue Welcome to the podcast, Anne. It’s a great privilege to speak to you today.
01:59 Anne Thank you. It’s a pleasure to be here.
02:02 Sue Now, there are so many things that I could explore with you in this conversation today, and you’ve had such an impressive and rich career in science. I wonder whether we could start by asking you, what do you do if you met someone at a drinks party that didn’t know who you were and they said, what do you do? How would you describe yourself?
02:17 Anne Yeah, that is a difficult one, but I don’t know. It depends who I’m speaking to. What I would say is that as a scientist, I’m just an explorer. So I’m really interested in the world around us, in us as human beings, how we work and function. So what I’ve always done is I’ve had a question in mind and I want to find out more about it. So from my own research career, I was initially interested in how all the molecules that are made in our body get to the right place to be able to do their work. And actually, that’s quite a complicated business because inside we’re made up of billions of cells and inside each cell, it’s quite a beautiful architecture of where things are and how they’re compartmentalized. And so I’ve always been interested in how are they targeted to the right location? And then I’ve also moved on to lots of other different research areas. There’s always been a common thread between them, but it’s all about that idea of exploration, of just finding out why and how things work. And that’s what really motivates me.
03:28 Sue So I’m hearing curiosity at the heart of that exploration, Anne. And I’m wondering, given that sometimes science isn’t the most popular subject that people choose when they’re at school, if you were thinking about inspiring people at school these days to embark on a career of science, what do you think would be most appealing to them?
03:47 Anne I suppose I would say to them, do you want a life of adventure that is not only enormous fun and incredibly rewarding for the person who’s doing it, the scientist, but also the knowledge that you unearth or discover that that can be really helpful, both in terms of whether that’s about human health or sustainable futures or sustainable energy, whatever it might be, you can be part of that. And I think the big thing for me is that when people think about scientists, they always think about something that is other, you know, oh, that’s, I would not be that person. Scientists are weird in some way. They think about, you know, straight laced people in white coats who never have fun and who just spend all the time in a smelly laboratory. And that could not be further from the truth. I mean, science gives you all the opportunity to solve the biggest problems that we have facing us as humankind. But it also allows you to travel the world, to have friends in all sorts of countries, to be able to visit those countries, not as a tourist just, but as someone who will understand how people live in different countries and how they work. So it’s the most amazing career, but it’s always portrayed as something a little bit odd. And I think we could do a lot to change that view so that it seemed much more attractive, particularly to young people who want some excitement. Well, excitement is a life in science.
05:14 Sue And you have had that from your amazing career. You were the chief scientific advisor to the EU, is that correct?
05:21 Anne That’s right. Yes.
05:23 Sue So working at that level and solving for some of the world’s biggest problems in those types of conversations, no doubt, how do you bring science in to inform that debate?
05:32 Anne Well, one of the things is that just presenting people with the evidence saying, look, this is the situation, and here are some options for dealing with it, that doesn’t work very well, because you’re mostly dealing with policymakers and with politicians. And by and large, I think they deal much more in philosophy, particularly the politicians. So they have philosophies about things. And philosophies can be completely disconnected to evidence. So what you have to do and where I think it’s a real challenge, a good challenge, is to try and be a translator. So here’s the evidence. Don’t speak about all the scientific terms, because that’s just a shorthand that scientists use to speak with each other. But to try and translate it into something meaningful, and then to offer politicians and policymakers options for, okay, this is how you could deal with that problem. Here are some evidence-based options or policies to be working with. And I’d also persuade them that why that could be so effective and important for them is not only would they solve our problems on behalf of the populations of whatever countries, but also because it’s very hard to contradict a policy that’s based on evidence, because the evidence is the stable platform. It’s incredibly easy to pick apart and criticize policies that are just based on philosophy, because someone else is going to have another philosophy and who says which one is right. So there’s a big strength to that evidence-based policy. It’s a matter of trying to get politicians to engage. And to be honest, my experience is that they’re just as nervous and frightened by science and scientists as the general population are. So it’s an uphill struggle.
07:19 Sue So what I’m hearing you say is that importance of communication and appealing to the head as well as the heart with logic in facts and data, and then also an element of engagement with beliefs and emotions to connect with people’s philosophy and make the data or the information relevant to their view of the world.
07:45 Anne Yeah, actually I think you put that a lot better than I did. I think that’s exactly right. And it’s also to remember that scientists are, we’re emotional beings as well. We are not without values. People think sometimes that science is a value-free zone. It’s just absolutely all about evidence and data. And of course, that’s not true. We should accept that we also have values and so on and be open and transparent about those. But it is all about communication. And from the point of view of encouraging more people to do science, that’s about communication to say, look, this is what a life in science would be like, as well as getting people to use the knowledge that we generate from our research. That’s to do with communicating how important it is and how they could use it.
08:27 Sue Well, that’s a lovely segue into turning our attention to the theme of the series, which is climate solutions. And therefore thinking about how the data that has been generated around understanding of the current situation with the climate, how that can be used to generate solutions. I know you’re the president of the Royal Scottish Geographical Society. I’m imagining that causes you to think about how that might be done.
08:48 Anne Yeah, absolutely. And I like the theme of this podcast series about climate solutions. And I think that historically we’ve tended to look at what is a bit of a crisis. We’ve tended to look at it as it’s all dreadful. It’s all terrible. No, we’re doomed in some way. And I think that actually, the more knowledge we have, the more we can understand about how we can avert the crisis that faces us and what we can all do. So it’s about possibility. It’s about doing things differently and not necessarily in a bad way. So I think historically it’s about being giving up everything. You know, don’t fly, don’t travel by car, don’t heat your home as much, don’t use energy intensive materials, all of these things. And we tend to think that that’s going to completely disrupt the lifestyle that particularly those in the West have, and sometimes others aspire to. But actually there’s a better way of living.
09:48 So let me give you one example. I have a car. If I didn’t have a car, I wouldn’t have to look after it. I wouldn’t have to put fuel into it. I wouldn’t have to try and find a parking space. I wouldn’t have to fix it when it goes wrong. I wouldn’t have to spend time taxing it and so on. What are my other options? It would be to get public transport, which I use almost all of the time now. The car is almost just an object I look at and I don’t do anything with. And when I’m using public transport, I can speak to another human. I can find out interesting stuff, have a great conversation. It’s often much more positive. It’s to do with changing our expectation of life and what we should do. And if I give you another example, people now, when I was a student, so we’re talking about the 1970s now, but when I was a student, I would probably have had two pairs of jeans and probably three t-shirts and that was my entire wardrobe. And actually it didn’t take me very long to wash and look after my clothes. I could spend most of my time doing interesting stuff rather than domestic laundry and the rest of it. Now people have 20 or 30 t-shirts, 10 pairs of jeans and so on. It takes a lot of time and the world’s resources to look after all that stuff. When frankly, you could be doing much more interesting things. So instead of buying all these things, could we not have a system where you just rented stuff? And then when you were fed up with it, because sometimes we do like something new, then you just use a particular app and say, okay, I want to hand this back and get a new thing now. And it’s delivered to your door and you pay a fee for it. Much, much, much better. So in other words, moving towards a system where we use things, but we don’t consume them. And that would help a lot, I think, for conserving global resources.
11:43 Sue I think that’s a great example of the solution focus as opposed to the problem focus and giving the listener a real practical example of how this could be done.
11:53 Anne Yeah. And actually I think we as global citizens, we should be a bit more demanding. I sometimes think now a lot of people will think this is a very odd statement, but I think our politicians have an easy time of it. I mean, we elect them to represent us, but I want them to use their power, their convening power and their ability to develop new and creative policies for us all. I want them to do that in a way that’s responsive to me. And I want them to, instead of perhaps pursuing their own philosophies, I would like them to look at these really important issues. And I think we should be a bit more vocal about saying to them, well, you’re not doing this, you’re not getting my vote again, unless you think about some way that you’re going to make it easier for me not to have to use private cars or to think about an economic system that is better for me and for the planet. So I think we should give our politicians a harder time because they’ve got a great responsibility. And if I’m honest, if I look globally, I don’t think they’re meeting that responsibility very well.
13:03 Sue And I guess that’s why perhaps we see around the world, particularly with the younger generation, those people being willing to voice their frustration with politicians.
13:12 Anne Absolutely. And, and, you know, a very obvious example that I think everyone will have heard of is Greta Thunberg. Now, I think she’s a wonderful young woman. The reason I say that is because as someone still at school, she felt that these issues of climate change and so on were so important that she thought that she would do something and she is a very good communicator. And so she went on strike. And you would think, wouldn’t you, because I hear a lot of people saying to me, oh, yeah, but what can I do? Well, so there is somebody without economic power, without, you would argue any agency, she’s not doing an important job in the world that people are going to notice if she goes on strike. As a pupil at school, she went on strike. Well, what an impact that has. And she most certainly has stood up with all the confidence of youth and the disregard for people’s positions. And she’s held some of the world’s most prominent politicians to account. And she’s done that very well and inspired a whole generation of not just other young people. But I find her inspiring. And I’ve thought I haven’t done enough, you know, when I look at a young person like that. So yeah, I think that we can learn a lot from looking at others, but individuals can have a huge impact.
14:32 Sue They always say, don’t they, be careful about the impact that a mosquito can have. We think they’re insignificant, but if they’re inside your mosquito net, then you know all about it.
14:37 Anne Absolutely. And I’ve been there.
14:42 SueNot a pleasant place to be. No. So given that you have had positions of power and influence in your career, Anne, and no doubt then a responsibility that goes along with that, I’m wondering, do you see that an important role that you do play is being a role model for others?
15:04 Anne It’s always funny because I don’t think anybody ever sets out to be a role model. And in a way you feel slightly uncomfortable because you think, well, I’m not good enough to be a role model. But there’s something better that you could be rather than me. But I do know, I think particularly in the area of encouraging more women to consider a career in science, there’s a phrase which you’ve got to see it to be it. And I do believe in that because if you look around you and I walk along the corridors of many big institutions and universities and so on, and what I tend to see decorating the walls are pictures of older white men. And if you’re a young woman and you’re walking along the corridors, subconsciously you’re going to think that this place is not for me, these powerful positions or the ability to influence is not going to be mine because I don’t see anyone who looks like me there. And I hope the more that people see someone like me, because I mean, I think by and large, you know, 99% of the population are ordinary people and I’m one of them. So if I can do it, anyone else can do it. All you need to be is interested, curious, passionate about a particular subject, and then just spend some time pursuing it.
And there will be barriers. And my advice to people when you come across a barrier is sort of just ignore it and just keep going or think about, well, that didn’t work. So I’ll go round in another direction. And I am proud, particularly, and it does occasionally happen to me. And I feel amazed and so proud when a young woman will come and say something to me about, oh, you know, you’ve really inspired me or, or whatever. I think that’s a great thing. And I’m glad that I have. I think that’s one of the most worthwhile things that you could do.
16:52 Sue So listener, I must tell you that ahead of this conversation, I sent Anne some questions that would be things that we might consider in our conversation today. And what she’s just described in her response then is an eloquent way of wrapping up three or four of those important points that we had as questions into one answer. So I think I’m currently experiencing receiving a response from a very skilled communicator, Anne.
17:13 Anne Thank you for that. Coming from you as well. Thank you.
18:01 Sue Now, if we think about science and geography, because those areas are, of course, two of the themes we’re really focusing on within this podcast series, how do those two subject areas connect for you?
18:12 Anne Okay, it’s one of the reasons that I’m very, very pleased to be the president of the Royal Scottish Geographical Society. And that’s because geography for me, it sort of connects environment and people and environment and our study of it is all about science and exploration of where we live and how we interact with our environment. But it also brings in that people part. And if I think of my career has largely been, you know, bashing bits of tissues apart and looking at them under microscopes and doing tests and not being able to see anything. So it’s not been to do with people. But geography is very much to do with people. And that’s where I think it’s unique place and also its excitement is, is that it’s about seeing our world through the eyes of individual and with people and how people interact with their environment. So it’s it’s hugely important and could not be more relevant. When we think about the big challenges that faces the natural disasters, climate change, all of those areas, that is all about geography and people and how we choose to colonise the planet that we’re we’re currently on. So it’s kind of one of the biggest subjects there is and it entirely underpins our ability to think about addressing things like climate change.
19:32 Sue I’m hearing then the connection between both of those things for those young people that may be beginning a career in geography and or science. I’m wondering what you think the most important skills or competencies they need to have given the world that they’re going to be graduating into.
19:48 Anne OK, I think the most important thing is to be outward looking. And what I mean by that is that it’s very easy to get seduced when you’re studying something that you actually find really, really interesting. And I’m describing myself now decades ago and you just want to read more about it, to do more experiments, to find out more, to generate more knowledge. But my PhD supervisor, once I’d done my degree and I moved on and did a doctorate, my PhD supervisor once said to me and he was meaning it as a chastisement because I love doing experiments, but I wasn’t so good at writing them up and publishing them. And he called me into his office one day as Professor David Eller and he said, look, you know, great that you’re so excited about your science and so on. But research not published is research not done. He said you need to communicate what you do or there’s absolutely no point in you doing it. It’s as if you never did it. And it was one of those things that never left me what he said. And when we do get passionate and absolutely absorbed by our science, you have to think all the time.
And I used to routinely question myself, why should somebody give me research money to do this? Why should the public, in other words, because the public largely pay for scientists and the research that we do, where’s the value that they’re getting out of this? And where’s my responsibility as a scientist, because I’m getting to do what I love day in, day out. How do I make sure they feel the positive impact of that? And of course, a little bit of that is publishing your research in scientific journals. A lot of it really should be going along to science festivals, going to schools, going to other organisations, to getting in touch with your politicians, your MPs, or in my case, in Scotland and my MSPs, but to say to them, look, this is evidence that you need to be looking at to be able to address that problem. So my advice to younger scientists would be, you have to be loud, you have to be communicative. And honestly, a little bit irritating. So I think I mean, if you can do it without being irritating, I’m not sure I’ve always managed to achieve that. But just to keep saying, yeah, I know it’s uncomfortable, what I’m telling you, how can I help you to be able to use this evidence, to be able to do a good job, so that people will applaud you as a politician for doing something that has really had a very big positive impact for a lot of people. And I’m very happy that politicians should get the credit for that, because they’ve got the responsibility for it. But scientists have an obligation to communicate the knowledge that you generate, because if you don’t do it, it’s as if you didn’t generate it in the first place. So that bit is a bit that people don’t always think about. But it’s an important, vitally important part.
22:41 Sue I wholeheartedly agree with you, Anne. And here we come back around to this subject of communication. Sometimes we perceive that scientists are very logical, left brain, detail orientated, perhaps not great communicators, that that wouldn’t be their primary strength. And yet here’s you saying actually, communication is key.
23:00 Anne Yeah, I would agree with that. And actually, I think scientists are pretty good communicators. When I listen to, just pick something at random, economists, sometimes I listen to economists, and I think, what on earth are they talking about? I don’t understand a word of it, or a lawyer, or, you know, it can be anyone who is, I suppose, expert in a particular specialty. They use shorthand and sometimes language, although I understand the individual words, I have no idea what they’re trying to say. So, I mean, communication should always be done in the simplest language possible, I think. And but not all of us maybe want to communicate it. You know, it’s quite daunting standing up in front of a big group of people and trying to communicate. I mean, I always find you get nervous or an awful feeling in the pit of your stomach, that never goes away. But I think that’s a good thing. That’s partly adrenaline. And that makes you sharper, which is good. But if, is a if as a scientist, you feel, do you know, I’ve tried it lots of times, and I can’t speak effectively to a group, that doesn’t let you off the hook.
What you then need to do is find another scientist who will communicate on your behalf. So it’s making sure that whatever you are generating, whatever knowledge you’re generating, and some people find it easier to communicate through the written word rather than spoken, then you just need to find a way of doing it. But what I think is, and I’m going to be maybe a bit strong here, but I think it’s inexcusable to take public money to do research, and not to think about how do you make sure that the knowledge that you generate has impact and is valuable to other people. You can’t just say, well, that’s not what I do. It has to be what you do. And people can help you do it as well. I remember going to lots of different courses about how to communicate effectively, and you learn the more you do it.
24:53 Sue Well, I think you’re describing really a sense of responsibility. So if we’re getting support funds from others, how do we repay that and see that we have a sense of responsibility towards that?
25:03 Anne Absolutely. And not just so that we can benefit from the knowledge, but also that we can take pleasure in the knowledge. I’m in Edinburgh at the moment, and it is, you know, a city of the Enlightenment in the 18th century. But at that time in Edinburgh, scientists used to stand up on wooden boxes, and crowds would gather around, or they would go to a tavern where people were drinking. And they would talk about some discovery and do experiments. And it was entertainment. People loved it. And we could do more of that.
25:38 Sue So we’ll watch out for you and your soapbox somewhere in Edinburgh. And I’m just wondering, Anne, you’ve reminded our listener that being Scottish is part of your heritage. I’m wondering if that Scottishness, as I might call it, has that helped you at all in your career?
25:53 Anne Yeah, bizarrely, I think it has, because why should your nationality help you? I remember when I had been the Chief Scientific Advisor for Scotland for almost six years, and then I was appointed the first Chief Scientific Advisor to the President of the European Commission. And when I arrived, there was obviously a bit of a fanfare, because it was the first time that post had been held. And I was really interested to see the description of me. So it was never as a British scientist, it was always as the Scottish scientist. And it hasn’t, it’s not something that I had asked to be described as. So I spoke to a lot of the people who were doing the communications around it. And they said, well, why wouldn’t you, if we’ve managed to get a Scottish scientist to do this role, why wouldn’t we talk about it? And it was because of the reputation and the credibility Scotland has in terms of science and engineering and has had, you know, for years and years.
28:50 So for all those Star Trek fans out of there, I mean, the engineer Scotty on Star Trek, well, he was obviously Scottish, because the Scots were known for their engineering through the ages and so on. So people were interested because I was Scottish. And then the other thing that I would perhaps benefit from is that we all have quirks of our culture. And I think Scottish people generally don’t think too much of themselves. So we don’t have that sense of importance that other nationalities might have. And so we’re quite down to earth and we’re straightforward. Obviously, I’m speaking in generalisations here. And I know that when I visited at that time, there were 28 member states, and I would go to different member states of the European Union and speak to scientists and to the public and to many other people. And they always used to say to me, oh, you don’t speak like a member of the commission, you’re so straightforward. And that’s true, I just spoke in language that I think was easy to understand. And that’s part of being Scottish, I think, anyway.
27:59 Sue Oh, I agree with you on there. Being a Scot myself, why wouldn’t I? Absolutely. Now, just taking us full circle back to your first comment, where you talked about really being an explorer in a way. I’m wondering where your explorations are taking you these days?
28:11 Anne Well, so at the moment, I’m at the University of Strathclyde in Scotland, and it’s a natural place for me to be because their strap line as a university is a place of useful learning. And I really like that idea is that I mean, of course, you go to Strathclyde and study all sorts of subjects. But there’s always a thought whilst you’re studying that subject is how can that knowledge be useful? So you can see why I would gravitate towards some place that thinks that. And we’ve got inspirational leadership at the university. And my role at the moment is as advisor to the principal or the vice chancellor of the university, my boss, in other words, Professor Sir Jim McDonald. And, you know, it’s about trying to change the life chances of young people. It’s about giving them a platform that they can use for the rest of their life and a network that they can rely on for the rest of their life. And also making sure that the knowledge that’s generated from the research at the university can be used by businesses, and indeed, by governments to have a big impact in the world. So that’s where I spend a lot of my time.
And I also do that thing when you get to a certain age, you start to think about what you’re going to do, at a certain age, you start doing ‘other things’ in inverted commas, which tends to be on boards of organizations. And I’ve worked with a number of charitable institutions, particularly looking at things like food sustainability in Africa. And I’m particularly interested in that think we could be sustainable and food in developed worlds is just that we, we choose not to be but if you if you live in like the African continent, they’re feeling the first impacts in Africa and Asia of climate change. So how can we leverage science and research on their behalf to make sure that they’ve got a sustainable future? Because my view is the what we currently described as the developed world, we created the problem. And I suppose the full burden of that problem is more felt by people, for example, in Africa and Asia. So we have a bit of an obligation to do something. And also, I’m sometimes never happier than when I’m in different African countries, there’s something about the people in those countries that I just love. So that’s a huge pleasure. And I suppose the other thing that I’m particularly interested in is using biology or biotechnology to substitute for a lot of the technologies that have required fossil fuels in making manufacturing goods, making chemicals and products have often used oil or gas or coal. And you can use biology as a substitute. So I chair one of our innovation centres in Scotland to try and make sure that that technology becomes mainstream, not not just for us in the Western world, but globally.
31:07 Sue And I have no doubt that your ability as a communicator will help speed along those changes and spread the message about that work that is being done in those innovation centres and so on. I hope so. Finally, Anne, just to disprove the theory that we mentioned somewhere in our conversation earlier today that sometimes can be seen as serious. What makes you laugh?
31:21 Anne scientists Well, that’s a really good question. I mean, you tend to see scientists when they are being serious because they’re talking about something that’s serious. But just because we deal with serious things doesn’t mean to say we’re serious people. And I am happy to say that I spend the majority of my time in life laughing. I find, I mean, people, my friends, my husband, in fact, makes me laugh hugely. And there is nothing better than having tears streaming down your face of laughter because of, you know, either not necessarily stand up jokes, but situations and so on. So I love laughing. I love going to the Edinburgh Fringe and Festival every year. And I laugh a lot at that. And I laugh at myself a lot because, you know, I can still see the absurdity sometimes of things that happen to me or things that I do. So I spend a lot of time laughing. And actually, if you have a career in science, you have to remember that you’re interacting with some of the most creative, imaginative people in the world, and they tend to be incredibly funny. So if you want a good laugh and a life of adventure, science is for you.
32:38 Sue Well, I can’t beat that strapline as a final point for our conversation, Anne. It’s been lovely today following your career, sharing some of the highlights and your thoughts on these important subjects that we’re considering around climate and the way we can look after the world a bit better for all of us.
32;58 And it’s been absolutely lovely for me to have this opportunity to chat to you as well, Sue. Thank you.
33:00 SueThank you, Anne. If people want to find out more about the work that you do, how might they be able to do that?
33:10 Anne Okay, so the easiest thing is I’m one of these odd people with a Wikipedia page. So you could have a look me up on Wikipedia. There’s more than one Anne Glover, I should say that as well. There’s also a witch, that’s not me, and she’s dead. There’s also a venture capitalist, I’ve met her, but that’s not me either, although we do get confused for each other. And also you could have a look at the University of Strathclyde. I’ve got a webpage there and if anybody’s any questions, they can email me. It’s easy to find out the email address on the Strathclyde webpage.
33:46 Sue Wonderful. Well, thank you again, Anne. It’s been a real honour speaking with you today, just to hear how down to earth you are, how excellent you are as a communicator, and no doubt a great advocate for the missions that you support.
34:10 Anne Thank you very much.
Sound Editor: Matias de Ezcurra
Producer: Sue Stockdale